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The sun has moved to the west side of the sky and turned yellow， but the ten people sitting in the courtyard of Dongzhimen were not aware of it. Men and women， boys and girls， and the old and the young， in total ten of them， are sitting around the table. We can see one of them is quite in the mood of talking， with his eyes shining and his lips moving. Other nine people are sitting inclining to the table and listening to him very carefully. The meeting was hosted by IESCO to discuss the development of the catering industry and youths’ position in it. Two hours have past and the ten people are talking about their predictions about the catering industry in the future 10 years one by one.
日头已往西斜成了暖黄色，但东直门内某四合院中的某十人却浑然不觉，这十人有男有女，有长有少，此刻正围桌而坐。其间一人嘴唇翻动，眼眸发亮，可见谈兴正酣，而其他九人也皆是身体微倾，目视讲话者做聆听状。IESCO今日攒局，聊的是餐饮业的发展和青年人在其中的位置，此刻讨论会已开始将近两小时，大家正依次发表自己对中国餐饮业未来十年的预测。
One of the few people sitting in the meeting at Jun Tong Da Company are Chen Lemin and Jia Wenshan， who are completely different. A year ago， they were only suppliers for the aquatic products， but one year later， they own a restaurant chain called “Thai Mei”， and plan to expand more and more. The top aquatic supplier， Jing Cheng’s sudden interest in cooking made everyone curious， everyone is a little hungry for more news， lets listen to Chen Lemin tell the story behind this.
Chen Lemin： Transform， the situation now is driving us to death. When the goods are here， selling makes us worry； replenishing ones’ stock makes us worry. Demanding for payment of a debt is hard， look at society now. So slowly we transformed the aquatic supplier industry， kept the loyal customers， kicked out the bad customers， transformation. We are doing the catering business because we feel we have an advantage. Secondly， we have a good team. Now we look at this transformation， it is okay， we can earn money more or less， spread a bit bigger can earn more money. Anyway， looking at it from now， our transformation was correct.
Aquatic products is certainly our business， the good customers have stayed. The demand for payment of a debt is really difficult， for example if he owes me 10 rmb or 5 rmb， and then says he will give it tomorrow. When you call him tomorrow， he will still say tomorrow， it is annoying. A lot of them are triangle accounts， for example， we sell this to Teacher He， Teacher He sells it again to CEO Li， but CEO Li did not pay Teacher He so Teacher He cannot give me money. This kind of situation makes the market difficult. When the market is good， we can make a lot of profit， but if you don’t do it properly it is a vicious cycle. 在座几人中来自君通达公司的陈乐民和贾文山无疑是异类。一年前他们只是水产供应商，并且在水产这个圈混得还不错，但一年后的他们已经拥有了人气极高的连锁餐厅品牌“泰美”并计划着开设更多的餐厅。京城水产供应一霸对餐饮业突然爆发的兴趣让大家好奇，所有人都耐住了微微的饥饿感，听陈乐民讲述这背后的。
陈乐民：“转型呗，现在这个形势，我们这行业要命到一定地步了。货来了，卖的时候要发愁，进货的时候要发愁。要账不好要，你看现在这社会……所以逐渐的把水产这一块，好的客户留下，不好的客户踢出去，转型。我们干餐饮这个，一是觉得自己有优势（原材料），二是我们组织起一个好的团队。现在我们来看这转型，还行嘛，多少能赚钱，铺大一点就赚多一点。反正从现在来看，我们这转型多少还是对的。
水产部分肯定还是要干的，因为这是我们起家的本行，好的客户留下。现在这业内主要是要账实在是太难，比如说他欠我十块钱也好五块钱也好，他说他明天给，明天你再给他打电话，他又说我再明天给，这很烦。好多都是三角账，再打个比方说，我把这东西卖给何老师了，何老师又把这东西卖给李总了，那李总没给何老师结账，何老师他把钱给不了我。这种情况，造成市场难干。好干的时候大家都挣钱、大家伙结账麻利啊，你不好干了肯定是要恶性循环。”
In addition， Chen Lemin expresses that the current anti corruption acts in Beijing have had an impact， especially on high end aquatic products needs. And Jun Tong Da’s products like lobsters have also had an impact. The birth of Jun Tong Da’s subordinate lobster buffet is also related to this.
Chen Lemin expresses overall assuredness about the forecasts for the catering industry， but does not feel he needs to adjust the stock variety.
Chen Lemin： Actually our aquatic products do not need to be adjusted， making sure our products are green and safe， not adding things is good.
此外陈乐民还表示目前北京反腐取得的功绩也对市场需求产生了一定冲击，尤其是对高端水产的需求。而君通达主营产品龙虾也在供求关系的变化中受到了冲击。君通达旗下龙虾主题自助餐厅“龙虾汇”的诞生也与此有关。
陈乐民对大家所预测的餐饮业发展趋势表示全盘肯定，但却不认为自己从供货商的角度需要调整自己的进货种类。
陈乐民：“其实我们水产这个也不用怎么调整，我们要做的只是保证我们的产品是绿色的、安全的、没加过东西的就好了。”
Without knowing， it was already dusk， the talks were coming to an end. As for catering revolutions， senior bartender Yan Beilei has a few words to say.
As for catering revolution， there is not much to approve or disapprove. I feel this market should go on along the needs of the market. Standing in this industry， according to the revolution of bartenders variation trend， he goes on to add： “First of all， I want to tell everyone， 99% of Beijing’s bartenders don’t know what they are doing， are not dedicated to doing something， which results in low self-esteem， being looked down by others and customers’ looking down on them. Actually， being a bartender is a very respectful career. First of all， it is not Chinese culture， it is western culture， in the western culture it is a highly respected career. In China， within 10 or 20 years passing， it evolved to this， because of the people in this industry. I also think there will be more and more people dedicated to bartending in the future.
不知不觉，窗外暮色已深，谈话接近了尾声。对于餐饮业改革，资深调酒师颜蓓蕾有话要说。
颜蓓蕾：“对于餐饮业改革这事没有说赞同不赞同，我觉得这个市场走向就是说某个人的想法或者怎么样的市场的需求。”站在这个行业，根据改革调酒师的变化趋势上，他又接着补充：“首先，我跟大家说一下，这个行业现在北京有百分之九十九的调酒师不知道自己在干什么，没有专注的去做一些东西，导致自己看不起自己、外行看不起自己、客人看不起自己。其实调酒师是一个非常值得尊敬的工作。首先它不是中国文化它是西方的文化，在西方是非常值得尊敬的一个工作。在国内，经过一、二十年很长时间，演变成这样，是这个行业的人所导致的。我觉得，以后可能专注做酒的人会越来越多。” From the aspect of talents， Yan Beilei thinks the future is promising， and most of them will be involved. But nowadays bars only have a counter for drinking， or a special pattern for the bar， which is very limited.
Yan Beilei： How to say this？ Take a restaurant-bar for example， it lacks professionals. Let’s say the boss hires a bartender， but he is not professional enough， so he gives some unprofessional suggestions， take for example your bar or restaurant， put into place a few unqualified things， or even serve fake alcohol， is all not known of. It will result in such problems. Slowly after training more and more people， it will change for the better.
从人才上讲，颜蓓蕾认为未来的趋势是很可观的，将会有大部分有才之人投入到其中。但目前酒吧还是停留在餐厅里面会有一个酒的柜台，或者是有一个专门的酒吧的模式，存在局限性。
颜蓓蕾：“比如一个餐吧，首先缺少专业的人。可能老板花钱请了一个调酒师回来，他并不够专业，所以给了你一些不够专业的意见，导致你吧台也好、餐厅也好，摆放一些东西是不合格的，或者说是不到位的，甚至说存在一些假酒他都是不知道的。就会导致出这些问题。慢慢地那些懂的人、认真做的人多去培训出更多更多的人，这个会有所改善。”
Manager of Hong Shenfu， Chen Lei， is a representative for the catering industry. She agrees with Yan Beilei’s views. But about working on the service industry’s people and how to improve and adjust to changes， Chen Lei gives her own opinion.
Chen Lei： From the angle of staff， because restaurant is a group， the kitchen and the front are two different parts. Restaurant is not only for eating， it is a high culture of 'hall'. What we talked about before is all about the kitchen， for staff， high end restaurants require appearance. Lower class restaurants require more service， to be quick， good and stable. It is necessary to give training on appearance to the staff. Because every service has a procedure， first step， second step， third step， just like doing something， everything has a procedure. Doing it according to the procedure doesn’t create any problem. As for the requirement of staff， appearance is of utmost importance. When speaking about reform， Chen Lei expressed that the educational requirements have changed， before they did not require as much studies. If educational experience is too low， for example high school or middle school has difference. You let them go take part in training， their understandings of what is taught have a difference， high school students understanding is more thorough， but the middle school students understanding is only halfway， and executing is very difficult. So when selecting staff， first is appearance， second is educational requirements， then is moral quality. Good morals of course are not easy to detect， but in the process of getting to know them， we can decide whether or not to use them. Chen Lei also brought up something like educational requirements importance， but feels that the basis of doing well in this industry is passion.
Chen Lei： I studied this major， hotel management. I like it， which is most important. Do what you like， if you don’t like it you can’t succeed.
陈磊提到了相貌与学历对于从事餐饮服务行业人员的重要性，但她认为做好这一行的根本在于发自内心的热爱。
红参府经理陈磊作为餐饮服务业的代表，十分赞同颜蓓蕾的观点。但对于从事餐饮服务行业的人员，如何提升自身以适应将来的变化潮流，陈磊发表了自己的看法。
陈磊：“从人员的角度，因为餐厅它是一个组成，其实前厅和后厨是两部分。餐厅不仅仅是吃饭的场所，它还是一个服务非常高的‘厅’的文化。咱们之前探讨的全部都是后面的厨房的话题，从前厅来说，在人员上面，高档餐厅是要求形象的。偏中低档次的餐厅是要求服务质量的快，然后好、稳，这几点是一定要做到的。人员主要是要从他们的仪容仪表上呢要求做一定的培训，然后要从他们的语言技巧上进行一定的培训，其次才是专业上的培训。因为它的每一个服务都是有流程的，有第一项、第二项、第三项，就像做事情一样，其实都是有流程的。按照流程来做，基本上是没有问题的。对于人员要求来说，形象还是很重要的。”谈到改革，陈磊提到了学历要求的变化，“以前是不要求，现在是要求学历的，学历不可以太低。太低的话，比如说高中生和初中生他就是有不一样的差别。你让他去参加培训，他对于你培训这一堂课的理解有一定差距，高中生理解更加透彻，初中生去理解你这一堂课半懂非懂，执行下去不是很好。所以我们现在在选人上，一个形象、一个是学历，然后再一个主要是人品。当然人品这一面你是看不出来的，是要在他实习期以内对他人品的定位决定是否用他。”
陈磊：“我是学这个专业的，学酒店管理的。自己喜欢，喜欢是主要的。只有喜欢，你才会去做。”
As we talked deeper in the banquet， He Liang talked about the popular cooking school star’s appearance， and the international professional education school’s education system’s difference， and creating the cooking schools in China’s opinion on that. Below are his original words.
“We do a star academy， or any school for that matter， the most basic thing is to be sure of our professional education system. The concept of star chef is not common nowadays， but in the future it will be， in 10 years or 50 years， maybe a long time， but knowing how to become a real chef， the goals of becoming a chef， will make him or her， an outstanding person. So whether a star academy or cooking school， do well now. I feel this way， creating an elite is not deliberate， it is discovering a seedling， educating and nurturing it. I am not the same as the chefs in China， make a blue band school， or anything else， the person of course has his process， and needs to prepare. I advise that if you want to do it， it cannot be nondescript， because the foreign blue belt management system is very elaborate. The training for them is one by one， is developed from up to down， so it is a procedure.
席间随着谈话的深入，何亮对现在国外盛行的专业厨师学校培养明星厨师的现象，谈了对他所在的国际职业教育学校的教育体系跟明星学校之间的差别，以及对打造国内厨师学校的具体看法。以下是他的原文记录：
“我们做明星学校也好，什么学校也好，那么最基础的，先把我们现在的职业教育做踏实了做好了。明星厨师这个概念我觉得现在不成熟，但是将来肯定是一个路子，但是将来也许是十年，也许是五年，也许是更长的时间，但是他们真正知道如何做一个厨师，做厨师的目的是什么，如果他们把目的看端正了，就为了弘扬中国饮食文化屹立于世界，让世界通过餐饮看中国，如果他有这个目的的话，我想他肯定能够在这个行业里面成为佼佼者，能够有出息，所以说，明星学校也好，厨艺学校也好，踏踏实实地做好现在。我是这么一个感觉，打造精英绝对不是刻意去打造，而是发现苗子以后，重点去教他，培养他。我跟国内某些知名厨师要搞的那个还不一样，他要搞的那个中国式蓝带学校也好，还是什么也好，人家肯定有人家的方法和选拔机制。现在搞也能行，但是在前期的准备工作和选拔工作上肯定很辛苦。我建议如果要办，就要办出样儿来，不能不伦不类，因为国外蓝带的管理体系是非常精细的，他们培养人的阶梯是一层一层的，是从高端往下发展，我们是从下往上，还没到往回返的时候，所以这个教育机制体制是一个过程，我们现在往上做，想做蓝带，但人家蓝带已经发展很好了，在往平民化发展。” He Liang used a teacher’s angle to express his original views on cooking training， those present all identified with his views. Starting with bartending， Yan Beilei formally acknowledged his teachers.
The school is also like a professional high school， some senior bartenders teach us the basics. The public does not respect this industry， and those in this industry don’t respect their work. After having a teacher， I got to know that every culture turns out to be culture. If you do not know the culture， then you do not know what you are doing and making money becomes everything. However， if you know the culture， you will have different opinions in it. Then when you are make a glass of cocktail， you are not just adding wine into it simply. I believe cooking is also the same， a few of the classic dishes， whether western or Chinese， each has a culture behind it. Whether the school or master， these bits， which attract the students. This is not only teaching them a skill to make money and make a living. It is useless， you had better tell them why they should do these， why to put so much and everything has a reason. Each person needs guidance， rather than purely practice alone. Everything depends on cultural deposits， if there is no culture， it is only a tool to make money.
何亮以教师的角度谈及了对餐饮培训的独到看法，席间大家对他的见解纷纷表示认同。而一开始专门学习调酒，后随美国大师拜师学艺的颜蓓蕾又从学生角度谈及了在学校学习与专门拜师之间的差异和感受。
“学校也是类似职高的一个专门学校，也会有一些资深的调酒师在里面教一些基础的知识。为什么大众对调酒师的认识就是把东西都放到一块儿，大众对调酒师就是这么理解，很不尊重这个行业，并不是说别人不尊重，而是做这个行业的人很多就不尊重自己的工作。跟了师父之后，我知道每个行业拼到最后，拼的是文化，你不了解这些文化，就不知道自己在做什么，可能只知道自己在赚钱，但是懂这个东西，你对它就会有不一样的看法，你再去做这杯酒的时候，就不是兑进去那么简单而已。我相信做菜也是一样的，对于一些经典的菜，无论是西餐还是中餐，它都有背后的一些文化。我觉得不管是学校还是大师，这些文化上的东西都要教给学生，这才是把学生引上路，并不是说我教给你一个技能，你靠这个技能去挣钱谋生，去吃饭，这样没有用，你不如告诉他，你为什么要做这个，为什么要放这么多，这里面都是有道理的。每个人都必须要被引导，而不是单纯地让他去练。说到底，每一样事情做到最后靠的都是文化知识和文化底蕴，如果没有文化，只是靠这些去挣钱。”
Yan Beilei’s words triggered a discussion， and extended this kind of systematic study where He Liang’s words were the principal.
The issue of master and apprentice is now open. The students enter the industry and like to be called army. If a master has too many apprentices， teaching them is difficult. But if it is not there is not alright， being a unit active in cooking， if he wants to improve， he needs a scale so he picks a master to give him or her a goal and motivation. We keep asking is it good or bad to accept apprentices， I think this is two sided. These things can be open， make a healthy relationship between the two. For catering industry， it is a good development feature which can correctly identify the relationship and what they need to do. We can have masters and apprentices， but it all depends on how we guide them， this is a problem we need to be clear about. 颜蓓蕾的话引发了像拜师学艺这种教学方式在当今社会是否还是主流的热议，并由此延伸出这种学习方式和成体系的教学系统相比之下的一些差异性会给餐饮业带来的效果等一系列的讨论，其中以何亮的发言为主。
“师徒这个问题，现在开放了，作为学生走上企业以后，现在都喜欢叫这家军，那家军，如果一个师父招太多徒弟，可能教起来很费劲。但是这个东西没有也不行，因为作为一个个体而言，活跃在烹饪餐饮战线上，他想发展想进步，就要有一个标尺，可能就需要选一个师父，给自己一个目标和动力。一直都在说收徒弟好不好，这个我认为是双面性的，这些东西我觉得可以开放，把师徒关系放到一个健康的路上来。这样对餐饮企业而言，是一个很好的发展形势，能正确认识师徒关系，认清师徒都需要做什么，咱们可以向未来和希望去引导。我觉得师徒可以有，但是要怎么引导，这是我们要想清楚的问题。”
After listening to He Liang and Yan Beilei’s discussion on nurturing a star chef， we thought about many things and made our own views about it.
Li Xiaolong： A restaurant cannot train a star chef because it is too difficult. If we come across a star chef， we need to create， train and publicize. Catering industry cannot train a star chef， because they need him/her to make them more famous and popular.
听完了何亮与颜蓓蕾对培养明星厨师的见解之后，在座的各位思忖良多，分别从自己所处的角度发表了看法。
李晓龙：“一个餐饮企业是不会去培养一个明星厨师的，因为太难了。除非是刚好就遇上了一个明星厨师，那我们就来打造、培养、宣传，餐饮企业很难能培养出来，因为餐饮企业本来就是要靠他们来烘托、带动。”
Li Xiaolong’s words received a compliment from Jia Wenshan.
Jia Wenshan： Doing the catering business is very straightforward， just to make profit. If you make me train a star chef and ask me how much cost I am willing to spend， I will say that I want to create a brand， along with the publicity for my chef. The effect the chef brings directly affects the profit of the restaurant， so we need to create a chef like creating a brand.
Yan Beilei： The concept of “star chef” is a role model for us. The chef does not look at skill alone， but his or her overall qualities decide if he can become a star. Spending a lot of time in training a chef， you are only a media， not a restaurant. We should concentrate on the dishes， and what needs to be done. We cannot spend a lot of time and money on inverting the future， should pay attention to the customers experience.
李晓龙的发言也得到了贾文山的赞同。
贾文山：“做餐饮业的目的很直接，就是盈利。你让我去培养一个明星厨师，问我愿意花多大代价，我会说我选择去打造一个品牌，顺带着让我的厨师参与进来去宣传。因为这个角度的话，厨师带来的效应也会直接影响我们餐厅的利益，所以说我会像打造一个品牌一样，来打造一个厨师。”
颜蓓蕾：“‘明星厨师’的概念，我认为是一个榜样，一个明星厨师不单单是厨艺有多么高超，他的综合素质决定他是不是一个明星。花大量时间去培养一个厨师，那你只是一个媒体，不是一个餐厅，我觉得应该要专注在菜品上和你要做的事情上，不能花大量时间、金钱来本末倒置，应该更关注顾客的体验。”
The restaurant bosses have no taboo against profits. Under this context， to make the restaurant release a star chef from zero is not feasible.
He Liang： Being an industry， they obviously hope to have a famous chef. Those who are appreciated in the industry， if have this kind of talents， the bosses won’t spare time， energy or money to create a star chef. Star chef needs to be separated by industries， categories， people， places， then only can they be called a star chef. 餐饮业的老板们对利益诉求毫不避讳，在这种语境下，让餐厅本身从零开始培养并推出明星厨师的命题似乎并不具备可行性。
何亮：“我觉得作为一个企业肯定希望自己有个名厨，是被行业内认可的，如果有这样的人才，我相信各位老总都会不惜时间、不惜精力、不惜金钱地把他们打造成一个行业里的明星厨师，明星厨师必须分行业、分类型、分人、分不同的地点，适应于不同的时间段，才能被称之为明星厨师。”
He Liang’s view made those present think over “star chef”， and the reason the concept was produced.
Chen Lemin： Firstly to be a star chef you need to have unique set of skills. In the presence of chefs and restaurants， we request him because he has the ability， and when he comes to our restaurant， we will publicize for him， the profits are complimentary to the two.
何亮的观点让席间重新思考“明星厨师”的界定问题，以及这个概念产生的原因。
陈乐民：“第一必须要有成为这个明星厨师的一项绝活儿，你才能成为明星厨师。厨师和餐厅是共存的，我们请他是因为他有这个能力，而他来到我们餐厅，我们也会去宣传他，给我们店带来效益，实际上二者是相辅相成的。”
何亮：“培养的明星厨师，人品好是第一位的，功夫好是第二位的，懂经营是第三位的，会搞人际关系是这些的核心。既让上面承认我，又让下面服我，大家还拥护我，这才是明星厨师。”
He Liang： To train a star chef， the morals must be good， then must be hardworking， and understand the business model， but most importantly must be able to develop networks. Being admitted by the boss， recognized by the colleagues and welcome by all the people， that is a star chef.”
Li Xiaolong： Star chefs are a international market need. When our quality of life reaches a certain level， we must understand culinary， make life richer. This is where star chefs play a role. We are not saying our industry needs to shove a star chef or that you need to go to a school to train chefs. Whether the market needs it will determine it. So when the masses become richer and want to choose what to eat， the TV programs will bring out a star chef， like Teacher He， entertainment and culinary together become a stage for the chef to come out.
李晓龙：“明星厨师实际是市场需求，我们生活水平达到一定程度了，想了解餐饮了，想丰富生活了，明星厨师到这个节点，自然就会出现了。不是说我们企业现在要去推明星厨师，或者说学校去培养明星厨师，要市场需求，没有市场需求是产出不了的，所以当老百姓生活富裕了就会想怎么弄点好吃的，这个时候电视节目就会挖厨师，像何老师这样的，将娱乐生活和饮食结合起来，成为一个平台，明星厨师就出来了，所以说明星厨师是一个节点问题。”
Continued.
未完待续——
日头已往西斜成了暖黄色，但东直门内某四合院中的某十人却浑然不觉，这十人有男有女，有长有少，此刻正围桌而坐。其间一人嘴唇翻动，眼眸发亮，可见谈兴正酣，而其他九人也皆是身体微倾，目视讲话者做聆听状。IESCO今日攒局，聊的是餐饮业的发展和青年人在其中的位置，此刻讨论会已开始将近两小时，大家正依次发表自己对中国餐饮业未来十年的预测。
One of the few people sitting in the meeting at Jun Tong Da Company are Chen Lemin and Jia Wenshan， who are completely different. A year ago， they were only suppliers for the aquatic products， but one year later， they own a restaurant chain called “Thai Mei”， and plan to expand more and more. The top aquatic supplier， Jing Cheng’s sudden interest in cooking made everyone curious， everyone is a little hungry for more news， lets listen to Chen Lemin tell the story behind this.
Chen Lemin： Transform， the situation now is driving us to death. When the goods are here， selling makes us worry； replenishing ones’ stock makes us worry. Demanding for payment of a debt is hard， look at society now. So slowly we transformed the aquatic supplier industry， kept the loyal customers， kicked out the bad customers， transformation. We are doing the catering business because we feel we have an advantage. Secondly， we have a good team. Now we look at this transformation， it is okay， we can earn money more or less， spread a bit bigger can earn more money. Anyway， looking at it from now， our transformation was correct.
Aquatic products is certainly our business， the good customers have stayed. The demand for payment of a debt is really difficult， for example if he owes me 10 rmb or 5 rmb， and then says he will give it tomorrow. When you call him tomorrow， he will still say tomorrow， it is annoying. A lot of them are triangle accounts， for example， we sell this to Teacher He， Teacher He sells it again to CEO Li， but CEO Li did not pay Teacher He so Teacher He cannot give me money. This kind of situation makes the market difficult. When the market is good， we can make a lot of profit， but if you don’t do it properly it is a vicious cycle. 在座几人中来自君通达公司的陈乐民和贾文山无疑是异类。一年前他们只是水产供应商，并且在水产这个圈混得还不错，但一年后的他们已经拥有了人气极高的连锁餐厅品牌“泰美”并计划着开设更多的餐厅。京城水产供应一霸对餐饮业突然爆发的兴趣让大家好奇，所有人都耐住了微微的饥饿感，听陈乐民讲述这背后的。
陈乐民：“转型呗，现在这个形势，我们这行业要命到一定地步了。货来了，卖的时候要发愁，进货的时候要发愁。要账不好要，你看现在这社会……所以逐渐的把水产这一块，好的客户留下，不好的客户踢出去，转型。我们干餐饮这个，一是觉得自己有优势（原材料），二是我们组织起一个好的团队。现在我们来看这转型，还行嘛，多少能赚钱，铺大一点就赚多一点。反正从现在来看，我们这转型多少还是对的。
水产部分肯定还是要干的，因为这是我们起家的本行，好的客户留下。现在这业内主要是要账实在是太难，比如说他欠我十块钱也好五块钱也好，他说他明天给，明天你再给他打电话，他又说我再明天给，这很烦。好多都是三角账，再打个比方说，我把这东西卖给何老师了，何老师又把这东西卖给李总了，那李总没给何老师结账，何老师他把钱给不了我。这种情况，造成市场难干。好干的时候大家都挣钱、大家伙结账麻利啊，你不好干了肯定是要恶性循环。”
In addition， Chen Lemin expresses that the current anti corruption acts in Beijing have had an impact， especially on high end aquatic products needs. And Jun Tong Da’s products like lobsters have also had an impact. The birth of Jun Tong Da’s subordinate lobster buffet is also related to this.
Chen Lemin expresses overall assuredness about the forecasts for the catering industry， but does not feel he needs to adjust the stock variety.
Chen Lemin： Actually our aquatic products do not need to be adjusted， making sure our products are green and safe， not adding things is good.
此外陈乐民还表示目前北京反腐取得的功绩也对市场需求产生了一定冲击，尤其是对高端水产的需求。而君通达主营产品龙虾也在供求关系的变化中受到了冲击。君通达旗下龙虾主题自助餐厅“龙虾汇”的诞生也与此有关。
陈乐民对大家所预测的餐饮业发展趋势表示全盘肯定，但却不认为自己从供货商的角度需要调整自己的进货种类。
陈乐民：“其实我们水产这个也不用怎么调整，我们要做的只是保证我们的产品是绿色的、安全的、没加过东西的就好了。”
Without knowing， it was already dusk， the talks were coming to an end. As for catering revolutions， senior bartender Yan Beilei has a few words to say.
As for catering revolution， there is not much to approve or disapprove. I feel this market should go on along the needs of the market. Standing in this industry， according to the revolution of bartenders variation trend， he goes on to add： “First of all， I want to tell everyone， 99% of Beijing’s bartenders don’t know what they are doing， are not dedicated to doing something， which results in low self-esteem， being looked down by others and customers’ looking down on them. Actually， being a bartender is a very respectful career. First of all， it is not Chinese culture， it is western culture， in the western culture it is a highly respected career. In China， within 10 or 20 years passing， it evolved to this， because of the people in this industry. I also think there will be more and more people dedicated to bartending in the future.
不知不觉，窗外暮色已深，谈话接近了尾声。对于餐饮业改革，资深调酒师颜蓓蕾有话要说。
颜蓓蕾：“对于餐饮业改革这事没有说赞同不赞同，我觉得这个市场走向就是说某个人的想法或者怎么样的市场的需求。”站在这个行业，根据改革调酒师的变化趋势上，他又接着补充：“首先，我跟大家说一下，这个行业现在北京有百分之九十九的调酒师不知道自己在干什么，没有专注的去做一些东西，导致自己看不起自己、外行看不起自己、客人看不起自己。其实调酒师是一个非常值得尊敬的工作。首先它不是中国文化它是西方的文化，在西方是非常值得尊敬的一个工作。在国内，经过一、二十年很长时间，演变成这样，是这个行业的人所导致的。我觉得，以后可能专注做酒的人会越来越多。” From the aspect of talents， Yan Beilei thinks the future is promising， and most of them will be involved. But nowadays bars only have a counter for drinking， or a special pattern for the bar， which is very limited.
Yan Beilei： How to say this？ Take a restaurant-bar for example， it lacks professionals. Let’s say the boss hires a bartender， but he is not professional enough， so he gives some unprofessional suggestions， take for example your bar or restaurant， put into place a few unqualified things， or even serve fake alcohol， is all not known of. It will result in such problems. Slowly after training more and more people， it will change for the better.
从人才上讲，颜蓓蕾认为未来的趋势是很可观的，将会有大部分有才之人投入到其中。但目前酒吧还是停留在餐厅里面会有一个酒的柜台，或者是有一个专门的酒吧的模式，存在局限性。
颜蓓蕾：“比如一个餐吧，首先缺少专业的人。可能老板花钱请了一个调酒师回来，他并不够专业，所以给了你一些不够专业的意见，导致你吧台也好、餐厅也好，摆放一些东西是不合格的，或者说是不到位的，甚至说存在一些假酒他都是不知道的。就会导致出这些问题。慢慢地那些懂的人、认真做的人多去培训出更多更多的人，这个会有所改善。”
Manager of Hong Shenfu， Chen Lei， is a representative for the catering industry. She agrees with Yan Beilei’s views. But about working on the service industry’s people and how to improve and adjust to changes， Chen Lei gives her own opinion.
Chen Lei： From the angle of staff， because restaurant is a group， the kitchen and the front are two different parts. Restaurant is not only for eating， it is a high culture of 'hall'. What we talked about before is all about the kitchen， for staff， high end restaurants require appearance. Lower class restaurants require more service， to be quick， good and stable. It is necessary to give training on appearance to the staff. Because every service has a procedure， first step， second step， third step， just like doing something， everything has a procedure. Doing it according to the procedure doesn’t create any problem. As for the requirement of staff， appearance is of utmost importance. When speaking about reform， Chen Lei expressed that the educational requirements have changed， before they did not require as much studies. If educational experience is too low， for example high school or middle school has difference. You let them go take part in training， their understandings of what is taught have a difference， high school students understanding is more thorough， but the middle school students understanding is only halfway， and executing is very difficult. So when selecting staff， first is appearance， second is educational requirements， then is moral quality. Good morals of course are not easy to detect， but in the process of getting to know them， we can decide whether or not to use them. Chen Lei also brought up something like educational requirements importance， but feels that the basis of doing well in this industry is passion.
Chen Lei： I studied this major， hotel management. I like it， which is most important. Do what you like， if you don’t like it you can’t succeed.
陈磊提到了相貌与学历对于从事餐饮服务行业人员的重要性，但她认为做好这一行的根本在于发自内心的热爱。
红参府经理陈磊作为餐饮服务业的代表，十分赞同颜蓓蕾的观点。但对于从事餐饮服务行业的人员，如何提升自身以适应将来的变化潮流，陈磊发表了自己的看法。
陈磊：“从人员的角度，因为餐厅它是一个组成，其实前厅和后厨是两部分。餐厅不仅仅是吃饭的场所，它还是一个服务非常高的‘厅’的文化。咱们之前探讨的全部都是后面的厨房的话题，从前厅来说，在人员上面，高档餐厅是要求形象的。偏中低档次的餐厅是要求服务质量的快，然后好、稳，这几点是一定要做到的。人员主要是要从他们的仪容仪表上呢要求做一定的培训，然后要从他们的语言技巧上进行一定的培训，其次才是专业上的培训。因为它的每一个服务都是有流程的，有第一项、第二项、第三项，就像做事情一样，其实都是有流程的。按照流程来做，基本上是没有问题的。对于人员要求来说，形象还是很重要的。”谈到改革，陈磊提到了学历要求的变化，“以前是不要求，现在是要求学历的，学历不可以太低。太低的话，比如说高中生和初中生他就是有不一样的差别。你让他去参加培训，他对于你培训这一堂课的理解有一定差距，高中生理解更加透彻，初中生去理解你这一堂课半懂非懂，执行下去不是很好。所以我们现在在选人上，一个形象、一个是学历，然后再一个主要是人品。当然人品这一面你是看不出来的，是要在他实习期以内对他人品的定位决定是否用他。”
陈磊：“我是学这个专业的，学酒店管理的。自己喜欢，喜欢是主要的。只有喜欢，你才会去做。”
As we talked deeper in the banquet， He Liang talked about the popular cooking school star’s appearance， and the international professional education school’s education system’s difference， and creating the cooking schools in China’s opinion on that. Below are his original words.
“We do a star academy， or any school for that matter， the most basic thing is to be sure of our professional education system. The concept of star chef is not common nowadays， but in the future it will be， in 10 years or 50 years， maybe a long time， but knowing how to become a real chef， the goals of becoming a chef， will make him or her， an outstanding person. So whether a star academy or cooking school， do well now. I feel this way， creating an elite is not deliberate， it is discovering a seedling， educating and nurturing it. I am not the same as the chefs in China， make a blue band school， or anything else， the person of course has his process， and needs to prepare. I advise that if you want to do it， it cannot be nondescript， because the foreign blue belt management system is very elaborate. The training for them is one by one， is developed from up to down， so it is a procedure.
席间随着谈话的深入，何亮对现在国外盛行的专业厨师学校培养明星厨师的现象，谈了对他所在的国际职业教育学校的教育体系跟明星学校之间的差别，以及对打造国内厨师学校的具体看法。以下是他的原文记录：
“我们做明星学校也好，什么学校也好，那么最基础的，先把我们现在的职业教育做踏实了做好了。明星厨师这个概念我觉得现在不成熟，但是将来肯定是一个路子，但是将来也许是十年，也许是五年，也许是更长的时间，但是他们真正知道如何做一个厨师，做厨师的目的是什么，如果他们把目的看端正了，就为了弘扬中国饮食文化屹立于世界，让世界通过餐饮看中国，如果他有这个目的的话，我想他肯定能够在这个行业里面成为佼佼者，能够有出息，所以说，明星学校也好，厨艺学校也好，踏踏实实地做好现在。我是这么一个感觉，打造精英绝对不是刻意去打造，而是发现苗子以后，重点去教他，培养他。我跟国内某些知名厨师要搞的那个还不一样，他要搞的那个中国式蓝带学校也好，还是什么也好，人家肯定有人家的方法和选拔机制。现在搞也能行，但是在前期的准备工作和选拔工作上肯定很辛苦。我建议如果要办，就要办出样儿来，不能不伦不类，因为国外蓝带的管理体系是非常精细的，他们培养人的阶梯是一层一层的，是从高端往下发展，我们是从下往上，还没到往回返的时候，所以这个教育机制体制是一个过程，我们现在往上做，想做蓝带，但人家蓝带已经发展很好了，在往平民化发展。” He Liang used a teacher’s angle to express his original views on cooking training， those present all identified with his views. Starting with bartending， Yan Beilei formally acknowledged his teachers.
The school is also like a professional high school， some senior bartenders teach us the basics. The public does not respect this industry， and those in this industry don’t respect their work. After having a teacher， I got to know that every culture turns out to be culture. If you do not know the culture， then you do not know what you are doing and making money becomes everything. However， if you know the culture， you will have different opinions in it. Then when you are make a glass of cocktail， you are not just adding wine into it simply. I believe cooking is also the same， a few of the classic dishes， whether western or Chinese， each has a culture behind it. Whether the school or master， these bits， which attract the students. This is not only teaching them a skill to make money and make a living. It is useless， you had better tell them why they should do these， why to put so much and everything has a reason. Each person needs guidance， rather than purely practice alone. Everything depends on cultural deposits， if there is no culture， it is only a tool to make money.
何亮以教师的角度谈及了对餐饮培训的独到看法，席间大家对他的见解纷纷表示认同。而一开始专门学习调酒，后随美国大师拜师学艺的颜蓓蕾又从学生角度谈及了在学校学习与专门拜师之间的差异和感受。
“学校也是类似职高的一个专门学校，也会有一些资深的调酒师在里面教一些基础的知识。为什么大众对调酒师的认识就是把东西都放到一块儿，大众对调酒师就是这么理解，很不尊重这个行业，并不是说别人不尊重，而是做这个行业的人很多就不尊重自己的工作。跟了师父之后，我知道每个行业拼到最后，拼的是文化，你不了解这些文化，就不知道自己在做什么，可能只知道自己在赚钱，但是懂这个东西，你对它就会有不一样的看法，你再去做这杯酒的时候，就不是兑进去那么简单而已。我相信做菜也是一样的，对于一些经典的菜，无论是西餐还是中餐，它都有背后的一些文化。我觉得不管是学校还是大师，这些文化上的东西都要教给学生，这才是把学生引上路，并不是说我教给你一个技能，你靠这个技能去挣钱谋生，去吃饭，这样没有用，你不如告诉他，你为什么要做这个，为什么要放这么多，这里面都是有道理的。每个人都必须要被引导，而不是单纯地让他去练。说到底，每一样事情做到最后靠的都是文化知识和文化底蕴，如果没有文化，只是靠这些去挣钱。”
Yan Beilei’s words triggered a discussion， and extended this kind of systematic study where He Liang’s words were the principal.
The issue of master and apprentice is now open. The students enter the industry and like to be called army. If a master has too many apprentices， teaching them is difficult. But if it is not there is not alright， being a unit active in cooking， if he wants to improve， he needs a scale so he picks a master to give him or her a goal and motivation. We keep asking is it good or bad to accept apprentices， I think this is two sided. These things can be open， make a healthy relationship between the two. For catering industry， it is a good development feature which can correctly identify the relationship and what they need to do. We can have masters and apprentices， but it all depends on how we guide them， this is a problem we need to be clear about. 颜蓓蕾的话引发了像拜师学艺这种教学方式在当今社会是否还是主流的热议，并由此延伸出这种学习方式和成体系的教学系统相比之下的一些差异性会给餐饮业带来的效果等一系列的讨论，其中以何亮的发言为主。
“师徒这个问题，现在开放了，作为学生走上企业以后，现在都喜欢叫这家军，那家军，如果一个师父招太多徒弟，可能教起来很费劲。但是这个东西没有也不行，因为作为一个个体而言，活跃在烹饪餐饮战线上，他想发展想进步，就要有一个标尺，可能就需要选一个师父，给自己一个目标和动力。一直都在说收徒弟好不好，这个我认为是双面性的，这些东西我觉得可以开放，把师徒关系放到一个健康的路上来。这样对餐饮企业而言，是一个很好的发展形势，能正确认识师徒关系，认清师徒都需要做什么，咱们可以向未来和希望去引导。我觉得师徒可以有，但是要怎么引导，这是我们要想清楚的问题。”
After listening to He Liang and Yan Beilei’s discussion on nurturing a star chef， we thought about many things and made our own views about it.
Li Xiaolong： A restaurant cannot train a star chef because it is too difficult. If we come across a star chef， we need to create， train and publicize. Catering industry cannot train a star chef， because they need him/her to make them more famous and popular.
听完了何亮与颜蓓蕾对培养明星厨师的见解之后，在座的各位思忖良多，分别从自己所处的角度发表了看法。
李晓龙：“一个餐饮企业是不会去培养一个明星厨师的，因为太难了。除非是刚好就遇上了一个明星厨师，那我们就来打造、培养、宣传，餐饮企业很难能培养出来，因为餐饮企业本来就是要靠他们来烘托、带动。”
Li Xiaolong’s words received a compliment from Jia Wenshan.
Jia Wenshan： Doing the catering business is very straightforward， just to make profit. If you make me train a star chef and ask me how much cost I am willing to spend， I will say that I want to create a brand， along with the publicity for my chef. The effect the chef brings directly affects the profit of the restaurant， so we need to create a chef like creating a brand.
Yan Beilei： The concept of “star chef” is a role model for us. The chef does not look at skill alone， but his or her overall qualities decide if he can become a star. Spending a lot of time in training a chef， you are only a media， not a restaurant. We should concentrate on the dishes， and what needs to be done. We cannot spend a lot of time and money on inverting the future， should pay attention to the customers experience.
李晓龙的发言也得到了贾文山的赞同。
贾文山：“做餐饮业的目的很直接，就是盈利。你让我去培养一个明星厨师，问我愿意花多大代价，我会说我选择去打造一个品牌，顺带着让我的厨师参与进来去宣传。因为这个角度的话，厨师带来的效应也会直接影响我们餐厅的利益，所以说我会像打造一个品牌一样，来打造一个厨师。”
颜蓓蕾：“‘明星厨师’的概念，我认为是一个榜样，一个明星厨师不单单是厨艺有多么高超，他的综合素质决定他是不是一个明星。花大量时间去培养一个厨师，那你只是一个媒体，不是一个餐厅，我觉得应该要专注在菜品上和你要做的事情上，不能花大量时间、金钱来本末倒置，应该更关注顾客的体验。”
The restaurant bosses have no taboo against profits. Under this context， to make the restaurant release a star chef from zero is not feasible.
He Liang： Being an industry， they obviously hope to have a famous chef. Those who are appreciated in the industry， if have this kind of talents， the bosses won’t spare time， energy or money to create a star chef. Star chef needs to be separated by industries， categories， people， places， then only can they be called a star chef. 餐饮业的老板们对利益诉求毫不避讳，在这种语境下，让餐厅本身从零开始培养并推出明星厨师的命题似乎并不具备可行性。
何亮：“我觉得作为一个企业肯定希望自己有个名厨，是被行业内认可的，如果有这样的人才，我相信各位老总都会不惜时间、不惜精力、不惜金钱地把他们打造成一个行业里的明星厨师，明星厨师必须分行业、分类型、分人、分不同的地点，适应于不同的时间段，才能被称之为明星厨师。”
He Liang’s view made those present think over “star chef”， and the reason the concept was produced.
Chen Lemin： Firstly to be a star chef you need to have unique set of skills. In the presence of chefs and restaurants， we request him because he has the ability， and when he comes to our restaurant， we will publicize for him， the profits are complimentary to the two.
何亮的观点让席间重新思考“明星厨师”的界定问题，以及这个概念产生的原因。
陈乐民：“第一必须要有成为这个明星厨师的一项绝活儿，你才能成为明星厨师。厨师和餐厅是共存的，我们请他是因为他有这个能力，而他来到我们餐厅，我们也会去宣传他，给我们店带来效益，实际上二者是相辅相成的。”
何亮：“培养的明星厨师，人品好是第一位的，功夫好是第二位的，懂经营是第三位的，会搞人际关系是这些的核心。既让上面承认我，又让下面服我，大家还拥护我，这才是明星厨师。”
He Liang： To train a star chef， the morals must be good， then must be hardworking， and understand the business model， but most importantly must be able to develop networks. Being admitted by the boss， recognized by the colleagues and welcome by all the people， that is a star chef.”
Li Xiaolong： Star chefs are a international market need. When our quality of life reaches a certain level， we must understand culinary， make life richer. This is where star chefs play a role. We are not saying our industry needs to shove a star chef or that you need to go to a school to train chefs. Whether the market needs it will determine it. So when the masses become richer and want to choose what to eat， the TV programs will bring out a star chef， like Teacher He， entertainment and culinary together become a stage for the chef to come out.
李晓龙：“明星厨师实际是市场需求，我们生活水平达到一定程度了，想了解餐饮了，想丰富生活了，明星厨师到这个节点，自然就会出现了。不是说我们企业现在要去推明星厨师，或者说学校去培养明星厨师，要市场需求，没有市场需求是产出不了的，所以当老百姓生活富裕了就会想怎么弄点好吃的，这个时候电视节目就会挖厨师，像何老师这样的，将娱乐生活和饮食结合起来，成为一个平台，明星厨师就出来了，所以说明星厨师是一个节点问题。”
Continued.
未完待续——